Terry
I've been reading your past answers to questions and have received great advice from it. However, I would love to hear your feedback on this specific trip I'm planning. First off, we're 4 guys(ages 27-28) from Los Angeles. We're planning to travel May 11-26, 2008. We found a great fare from LAX to LHR, nonstop, that we're about to purchase. During this time, we plan to make the most of the trip. Thus, we want to start out in London for a few days, not much, just to really say we've been there(plus its our flight's destination). From London, we want to fly down to Barcelona and take a train across Southern France into Milan for about 5-6 days. We want to stop in some cities along the way(Nice, Cannese, Monaco, etc.). We're not sure how the train situation will work out for this so this is definitely a big part of my question for you. After Milan, we want to take a quick flight down to Rome for some sightseeing. After Rome, we need to head back to London to catch our flight back home. If we have a few days to spare, we wanted to hit either Amsterdam or Stockholm before we reach London for our flight.
Obviously, this is an aggressive schedule. My friends and I are really looking for a blend of traditional sightseeing(just major attractions) and relaxation(food, wine, beaches, nightlife, etc.) We plan to come back to Europe later in our lives for a more in-depth visit. But for now, we want to do as much as we can while we have these two precious weeks off(its hard to get this much vacation time this early in our careers). As far as budget, we each have allotted $4-5K for this trip, including airfare(which right now is $650 RT from LAX to LHR). We think we can travel within Europe cheaply through RyanAir, Easyjet, etc.
So, given that. What are you thoughts, suggestions, advice, feedback on any of this?
ANSWER: Hi . . . Bryant!
You noted: “this is an aggressive schedule.” You are 100% correct that “this is an aggressive schedule.” How to fix and fine-tune it?
Here is my feedback. I am not trying to be negative, just realistic and honest. You do have a great, low airfare, but it is for May 11-26, 2008 as things start to get much busier with crowds, delays and congestion in these prime and popular parts of Europe. Therefore, you cannot travel as quickly and easily as you would hope and desire if going at an earlier time. It will take and require more patience, money and planning to make it all flow SMOOTHLY!
To start out in London is great, but your first day there will be limited due to time to get through that airport into main London, plus the jet lag and body clock adjustments, etc. You can fly down to Barcelona, but it will take time to get to the distant London airport for that flight, time for arriving early and going through security, etc. The airport that Ryan Air and others use is at a long, long distance from central Barcelona, etc. Europe is somewhat compact, on paper, but it takes more time to get from main part of London to main Barcelona than you are thinking and planning right now. There are lots of logistical hassles, delay and frustrations to consider as you try to pack it ALL into your aggressive schedule. Initially in the first few days, you can play “run and gun” in your travel, but it will get old and you want to slow down a bit so you can better ENJOY IT!
Then, to take a train from Barcelona across southern France into Milan will take almost two full days with all of the train changes, delays between departure times, etc. You can check www.raileurope.com for detailed schedules. You will have to look at Barcelona to Montpelier and then Montpelier to Nice, etc., for exact schedule times. There will not be one seamless, quick, easy routing from Barcelona to Nice, as an example.
After Milan, you can try a quick flight down to Rome, but I would also check out the rail options. The air flight might be quick between these two airports, but it takes lots of getting out to airports and dealing with their long time requirements. It’s not as easy or quick from main Milan downtown to main Rome by air. Sorry! And in going from Milan to Rome, you are miss a stop in super wonderful Florence and Tuscany, etc.
After Rome, could you use a few “spare” days to hit either Amsterdam or Stockholm before reaching London for your return flight. It is possible? Anything is possible, but Ryanair and others go into a totally different airport than Heathrow. You’ve got to get from that “other” airport back over to Heathrow. That all takes lots more time, money and patience. If you really want a BLEND of traditional sightseeing and relaxation(food, wine, beaches, nightlife, etc.), then you will need to determine your highest priorities on what to see and where to go. At the end of your “vacation time”, you don’t want to arrive back too tired and worn out that you are wasted for the next week or two. On budget, I would aim and hope for the $5K level for this trip. For this busier late May time, better, quicker logistics cost more than you think, the Euro is high and the dollar low, food and beverage costs can add up quick, cheap places to stay are not as handy or enjoyable that wastes limited time, etc.
If you narrow your focus to a shorter list of THE highest priority places, it can work out better. Look forward to hearing more back from you, including that ranking of your priorities in rank order. Have you visited Paris or Europe previously? Do you want to see much of country areas in Europe or just the large cities?
Does this start to help a little? What are your reactions and needs for added information? Be happy to answer other questions after learning more from you. Be sure to complete the evaluation section so that our "bosses" on this volunteer service know we are working hard to make inquiring minds as happy as possible. ENJOY! Merci Beaucoup!
Thanks. Terry Casey in Columbus, Ohio
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
Thanks for the feedback. You're right, I didn't figure in the logistics too much. That gives me a better perspective.
I have been to Europe(Paris, Prague, and Budapest). But each trip was short and only that city. And, we're more about the cities that have great beaches and nightlife then the countryside. We figure we can do that later in our lives.
In terms of priority, I think for us its more about relaxation and fun. Barcelona and Southern France seem to be our best bet to spend the most time in. Do you think we should just find a flight straight to Barcelona instead of rerouting through London, and then getting a return flight from Rome? Also, would it be easier to rent a car or take a train across Southern France, knowing that we'd like to stop off certain cities to enjoy the beaches, dining, and nightlife?
You make very good points in your answer. Thanks for the time you put into it.
ANSWER: Hi . . . again . . . Bryant!
Thanks for the added info and background. Paris, Prague and Budpest are all wonderful. I'm glad you've been to those great places and are now seeing the "logistical" perspective.
Now with more time and your friends for this trip, you can have a great time. Your potential plan of flying into Barcelona directly and then going back out of Rome would be a much better, more focused plan. That would be a great idea with lots of options off of that routing you mentioned. Below are some notes on Provence, traffic and beaches there. I would suggest while there getting a little sampling of the country in such wonderful areas as Provence and Tuscany. You'll love it!
You can rent a car in Spain and drop it in France or Italy. BUT, the costs and drop charges might make that more difficult and not affordable. You can avoid driving in Barcelona(which is very congested) by the taking the train up to Narbone in France, get your car there and explore more along the coast from there. Then maybe you could take a train into Italy from Nice or nearby and get a car in Italy. Or you could do the rest of your travel in Italy by train, depending on your exact planned stops. You'll need to check the cost and time factors BOTH WAYS to see what works best. I will be happy to answer any other questions on Barcelona, Southern France and Italy. I can send added notes and tips for super wonderful Barcelona and Italy, if needed. Let me know if that would be of value and where in Italy you are planning to visit. ENJOY! Merci Beaucoup!
Thanks. Terry Casey in Columbus, Ohio
PROVENCE: WHY IT IS A GREAT PLACE? ITS WONDERFUL OPTIONS: Why do people love Provence? It is a region having a love affair with the land, earth and environment. The landscape is lush and verdant. Open-air markets have baskets of fresh herbs, fruits, flowers, fabrics, etc. The colorful spirit of the Mediterranean fills the air. Provence is nature at its purest. The sky is a piercing shade of blue. Fields are abundant and the air is clear. The climate ensures that spring, summer and fall yield magnificent and varied harvests. Throughout France, Provence is known for the best of everything natural. People in the area take great pride in these natural traditions for what they grow and how it is prepared in each village and every kitchen.
LOCATION: Provence has at its southern edge the famed Cote d’Azur with its wonderful coastline along the Mediterranean Sea. Generally Provence is consider the area east of the Rhone River with the Alps being the eastern border. Provence enjoys a southern sun that shines 320 days yearly, giving the region blue skies and mild temperatures year round. It is most picturesque in the spring with its flowering trees and shrubs. Summer offers local markets full of fresh harvests. Mid July is when the lavender field are in full bloom, filling the country air with a soothing fragrance. The Mistral winds can bring icy temperatures on bright sunny days. Getting lost can be fun in Provence. You can stumble across a charming village, history abbey or great tree-lined roadway. KEY PROVENCE LOCATIONS: AVIGNON is "one of the great art cities of France". Its old part of town has the Papal Palace, seat of Popes 1309-1377, street musicians perform near palace; art museum in Place du Palais open Wednesday through Monday, population of 87,000, town is on Rhone River. Once the religious, political and financial capital, Avignon is today a cultural capital and plays host annually in July to the largest festival of live theatre in the world. It has some of the best example of Gothic architecture in Europe.
AIX-EN-PROVENCE(population of 125,000) with Cezanne's studio on the road to Entremont; university town founded 122 B.C. as first Roman settlement in Gaul, near thermal springs, dining at Gu et Fils. An elegant and beautiful town, the visitor will enjoy discovering its ‘thousand fountains’ as he or she roams through its labyrinth of narrow streets. Aix-en-Provence is also renowned worldwide for its unique classical music festival.
Car travel to such nearby areas as ARLES, highest priority area city with Roman ruins, including 20,000 seat arena where bull fights are held in the summer; founded 49 B.C. by Julius Caesar, population of 52,000, Van Gogh's former home. Tarascon has its 15th century castle. LES BAUX is a very neat medieval village with great views that has no major population now, but tourist flock to soak its history and great views. You should dine right near there at L'Outau de Beaumaniere for ONE OF THE BEST MEALS YOU CAN HAVE IN FRANCE(lunch is more affordable).
NIMES was settled 121 B.C. and has a population of 140,000. Around the time of Julius Caesar, Nimes was a bustling city on the strategic Via Domitia linking Rome to Iberia/Spain. Nimes's arena, temple and nearby aqueduct are among the best-preserved in all of the former empire. Cars are banished from the compact old city dotted with other ruins, enhancing the feel of yesteryear. The Maison Carre is an almost impossibly pristine Roman temple.
ST. REMY his its Roman ruins, a population of 9000 and is the setting of world-famous literature. Saint-Remy is one of the most representative of Provençal towns and allows the visitor to appreciate the true charm of this oft-celebrated region of the country. It comes as no surprise that Saint Remy, like Cannes or Saint Tropez, is a destination for many well-known personalities. This Gallo-Roman village is on the plains 20 km south of Avignon. Residents more recent than the Romans include Dr. Schweitzer, Dr. Nostradamus and Van Gogh. The picturesque, old village is protected by the circular 14th-century wall which is lined by its protective circle of buildings. Its dolphin fountain is located in the shaded square in front of a 16th century old convent. This is a busy, active village, with a good selection of restaurants and hotels for the traveller. Among the shops are a few with some regional pottery, including some beautiful sunflower plates influenced by Van Gogh. The road between St. Remy and the autoroute(at Cavaillon, 17 km to the east) is a scenic drive out of the past: the road is lined by plane trees .
PONT DU GARD(Roman aqueduct/bridge) to the west of Avignon is a must see; Saturday AM market at Uzes near Pont du Gard can be totally charming and wonderful. Try good Provence website of:
www.provencebeyond.com
Try Avignon’s official tourism office: www.avignon-et-provence.com
COASTAL SUGGESTION: The old village of Eze, along the coast between Nice and Monaco, hangs up in the mountains above the water and crowds. It's wonderful to visit. Great, great views! Totally charming! Have lunch or dinner there at one of the two great eating places and feel like you're sitting on the edge of paradise!
CONGESTION, TRAFFIC WARNINGS: Be properly warned that Nice, Cannes, Monaco, etc. can and will be extremely crowded during their peak tourism periods. Lots and lots of people(both residents and visitors), too many cars, too few highways and limited land between the mountains and sea to hold all comfortably and easily. The movies have made these large cities seem attractive and appealing. Do not Cary Grant and Grace Kelly seem to be having fun there? So glamorous and exciting?! For movies, they make it seem so wonderful. If you are rich and in the “best, right” areas, it can seem and be wonderful. BUT, that congestion might be a turn-off. It depends on what are you expecting, seeking and willing to pay for to hang with the rich and avoid the mobs in these famed areas.
WEATHER/BEACHES FOR THIS AREA? It is NOT always hot and perfect beach weather during all months of the year in this region, especially in the November to April period. Also, the beaches are not all perfect, nice and sandy, gently sloped, etc., as some have experienced in Florida, the Carolinas, California, etc. The movie images paint a perfect picture! BUT, in many areas for some months, the beaches can be rocky and the weather mostly in the 50's and 60's. Sunny, probably. Windy, maybe. Not trying to be negative, just realistic! Timing in this area is important! Movie-like expectations must be matched with reality and your timing for visits in this area. Also some of the best beaches in a few peak areas are reserved for private hotel or resort use only. Not all of the best beaches are open to the general public.
COTE D'AZUR/NICE
The Cote d'Azur was "discovered" in the late 19th century as an illustrious winter wonderland for the privileged classes of British, Swiss and Russian societies. Climatically favored even in the winter, Nice was praised for its therapeutic benefits which drew foreigners searching for the dry, warm weather necessary to cure what was ailing them. Enchanted by this undiscovered paradise, the same families returned year after year until an affluent community of royalty, courtesans and artists flourished in the prosperous atmosphere of Belle Epoque Nice.
Today, Nice is a spectacular fusion of French and Italian culture, customs and cooking. Even the language, le Nicois or Nissart, spoken almost exclusively by the local population up until the beginning of the 20th century, is a hybrid of Italian—the official language of Nice from the 16th century until 1860, and French—the official language thereafter. This amalgam of cultures is also responsible for the wonderfully robust and flavorful Nicois cooking, based largely on olive oil, tomatoes, garlic, basil and other local produce.
Easily accessible to its international airport or by TGV Express train from Paris' Gare de Lyon in five and a half hours. With budget airlines such as Air Lib and Easy Jet, round trip fares between Paris and Nice can be had for competitive prices, sometimes less than a train ticket. Accommodations are plentiful but reservations are strongly recommended all year round so as not to waste time searching for vacancies. This is especially true in the summer months when millions of tourists flock to Nice's sun-baked shores.
Depending on the season, you are almost certain to witness a festival, parade or other spectacular event that transforms the city into a veritable extravaganza. From Carnival in February to the Jazz Festival in July, there is always an attraction to entertain locals and visitors alike.
It is suggest to start your day in Vieux Nice(Old Nice), with a cafe creme in the Cours Saleya and observe the vibrant Marché aux Fleurs(Flower Market). In addition to a colorful assortment of regional flora, this market specializes in locally grown fruits and vegetables and regional products such as honey, lavender, preserves and—of course—olive oil. Don't miss the vast assortment of exquisitely confected marzipan figures and rich candied fruit which make for excellent, inexpensive souvenirs. If you prefer a more structured overview of Old Nice, make your way to the Palais Lascari, a magnificent Baroque palace which is now a museum and the meeting point for several guided tours throughout Nice. For specific information, contact the palace directly.
Climb the sweeping stone stairs to the Chateau de Nice where you will be rewarded with another delicious treat, a breathtaking view of the Baie des Anges. For those that prefer to save their breath during their visit of this ancient site, there is an elevator at the foot of the cliff.
You can stroll along the port and choose among several fine seafood restaurants or venture back into the narrow streets of Old Nice for more indigenous cooking. For a lighter version of regional dishes in a refined setting, reserve at the Petite Maison on rue St. Francois de Paule—steps from City Hall, the newly renovated Opera House and Alziari, the indispensable address for fragrant olive oil, jars of tapenade or olive spread and big green bars of olive oil soap. Cross the street and sample the addictive chocolate covered almonds at Auer, an old fashioned confectionary dating back to 1820.
Vieux Nice/Baroque Treasures: Begin at the Prefecture and take rue Ste. Reparate to the Place Rosetti where Finocchio, an enticing gelateria, offers the sinful Italian ice cream. If you're feeling guilty after your sweet indulgence, confess next door at the Cathedral of Ste. Reparate. Named after the patron saint of Nice, this impressive church is an excellent example of the Baroque architecture that flourished in Nice during the 17th century.
If you prefer to venture out of Old Nice for dinner and if lunch plans didn't include a visit to the port, don't exclude this destination which makes for a particularly pleasant evening program. After admiring the stunning array of yachts in the marina, relax at the upscale L'Ane Rouge, a sophisticated seafood restaurant serving classical regional dishes.
WEB-MAPPING FOR FRANCE:
Use this website to get any detailed maps you need. Scroll to the bottom of the page and follow the directions with your details on where are coming from and going to. It will give both graphic maps and written point-by-point instructions.http://www.mapquest.com/maps/main.adp?country=FR
orhttp://www.mapquest.com/directions/europe.adp?do=nw
RAIL SCHEDULES: You can go to this website
www.raileurope.com
and check all of the various train options, timings and costs on rail travel within Europe. Great, very useful site!
---------- FOLLOW-UP ----------
Hey Terry
Just wanted to follow up with you on our changed itinerary based on your recommendations. Here is it:
May 12 - Los Angeles to Barcelona
May 13-16 - Barcelona
May 16 - Barcelona to Nice(flight)
May 16-21 - Nice
May 21 - Nice to Rome(flight)
May 21-26 - Rome
May 26 - Rome to Los Angeles
What do you think? I think it definitely less agressive than my previous schedule. Plus, we'll get to enjoy each city more since we added days for each stop.
So, what are you suggestions for either city(Barcelona, Nice, Rome) in terms of lodging, attractions, beaches, restaurants, nightlife, and other activities. Now that we have our flights, we're in the process of finalizing the rest of the itinerary.
Look forward to reading your feedback.
Thanks again for all your help.
Best
Bryant

