Lawyers and/or law Students: Do you enjoy what you do?

[baigh75]

I'm a freshman at MSU and this week I'm taking the finals that will officially end my first year of college. I'm an English and Pre-Law major and I recently met some corporate attorneys(my future profession) and they seemed pleased with the pay and dissatisfied with everything else. Current and future lawyers, what have you experienced so far in school or the workplace?

[chepito]

It is very possible that you could go through all the debt, law school, bar exam and end up with no job, a temp job, or some low paying dead-end job. The law schools will be glad to take your money.

This could be you after law school. From a recent Boston Craigslist Post:

"Recently admitted attorney seeking work assisting criminal defense attorneys in any capacity. I have worked with indigent defendants in clinical settings and interned for several excellent defense attorneys and a federal judge, but am finding few opportunities for entry level work in the field. I am proficient (though not fluent) in Spanish, have strong research and writing skills, am passionate about indigent defense, and am an extremely quick learner. I will research, draft motions, conduct interviews, even answer phones, for a low fee of $10 an hour in exchange for the opportunity to observe, and perhaps participate in, actual litigation. References and writing samples available."

Or From a recent Boston Globe Article:

Paul Semenza practiced law for 25 years, including work as a defense attorney in personal injury cases. So the Wakefield lawyer figured it would take only a few months to find work after losing his law firm job a year ago. But the economy steadily worsened, and no offers came. Now Semenza, 51, has been forced to find a different way to earn a paycheck - by selling sofas and mattresses at a local furniture chain.

Or, From a recent Yahoo Post:

"Small general practice law firm located near Columbus, OH. Started at $40K 1.5 years ago after first receiving law license. After 3 months pay was raised to $43K. Had annual review and was told although I had a stellar performance and deserved a raise the office couldn't afford to give me 1. When started was told I should be paid more than they were paying me but they couldn't afford to pay me more. Have several years of paralegal experience. Graduated in top 20% of class. Did internships and clinics during law school. Didn't need much training when started. Feel like starting pay was too low and current pay should be much higher. Can't find much info. on small firm salaries though."

or From another Yahoo Post:

I just passed the WA Bar (Feb '09) and I cannot find a job...I am attempting to establish a solo practice but I would prefer to gain some experience under a seasoned attorney! So, any help in networking is GREATLY appreciated!

I would like to do some document review as well and if you have any leads please send them my way. It doesn't matter what state it is in as long as I am licensed I can do the work. Willing to relocate for the length of the work if necessary.

Thank you in advance!

or from another Yahoo Post:

"My bf just took the bar exam to become an attorney. He has posted resumes on yahoo, monster, craigs list, newspapers, etc. and just can't seem to find any work. Finally he decided to just apply for jobs like bank assistants etc. Interviewers would say he's too qualified for "rookie" positions, and he's "not qualified" enough for a lawyer position. Is there hope? Thanks."

Or ways to save money after law school:

"When she moved to Chicago from New York after graduating from law school last year, Lauri Apple, who is still looking for the job of her dreams, knew of at least one good way to save money.

If she needs something to wear, she takes a look in the local trash. A practice she started as a starving college student a decade ago has now evolved into something of an avocation, reports the Chicago Tribune."

Or alternative uses for a law degree when you can't find a job:

"Law Grad Turns to Cupcake Truck as Economy Sputters"

I went to a top twenty law school and had friends selling shoes and working as waiters as survival jobs because they could not find law jobs after graduation. Lawyer is the most over-rated, over-romanticized, and over-hyped profession.

[mads]

Listen to previous-poster "stephen t" - he does know what he is talking about.

Choosing a career is one of life's most important and difficult decisions. But knowing what your expectations are, and then comparing them to the realities will help you make educated decisions.

There are more attorneys than there are legal employment positions. We simply already have way too many Legal Professionals. AND the legal profession is dramatically changing: it is in absolute CRISIS! Job searching in this vocational field has changed >>DRAMATICALLY<< in the last five years. And, every year, more and more people graduate from law school, but there are fewer and fewer jobs. Even the largest and most reputable law firms are experiencing unprecedented cutbacks. I don't expect the situation to improve in the coming years.....

Be aware of what you are proposing on getting yourself into. Please do more research first. Reminder: We are STILL in a World-wide Recession. The DOW may be up, but jobs have not recovered. Obviously, economic conditions affect the number of jobs available. Consider career paths that have available JOBS.<< Even in a Recovery, there are some jobs that just won't return - the field of Law won't make a comeback. Too many things have changed in this vocational field.

Warning> Jobs in the field of Law are drying up fast!! This no longer is a good field to invest time and/or money into. This is a SHRINKING, crumbling, and dying vocational field. Many, many reasons: We now have computers. So, many people today (mistakenly) think they can do their own legal work, thanks to the Internet and legal books. Also, there are a lot of companies out there making very efficient legal software for the field of Law. Today's graduating lawyers tend to be very computer savvy, so they just do the work themselves to save themselves the cost of overhead - they aren't hiring legal staff. Also, the "Public" buys this legal software/law books in order to get legal work done without the expense of an Attorney. Also, we simply already have way too many Legal Professionals - we just have an absolute glut!! ("Legal Professionals" includes, but is not limited to: Attorneys/Lawyers, Paralegals, Legal Assistants, Legal Secretaries, Bailiffs, Court Reporters, etc, etc) For example: Sites like legalzoom.com have taken away work that many small-time attorneys/lawyers would do/used to do.

The field of Law has a mystique that actually exceeds reality. The field of Law is a vastly overrated career - especially by television.<< There are many myths regarding the field of Law:
**myth: working as a Lawyer is mentally challenging (Actually, most work as an attorney involves mountains of routine paperwork: research, cite checking, drafting documents, and document review. Attorneys need to write down and track EVERY activity they do, all day long [in 6 to 15 minutes increments, depending on the billing system] - a painstaking but necessary task - handling details is a large part of working as a lawyer),
**myth: being an attorney is thrilling, high-powered, and glamorous (remember: television is FICTION - the fictional lawyers on TV are ACTORS - the majority of work that an attorney does, does not happen in a courtroom),
**myth: law students think that because they are good at arguing they will become great attorneys (Actually being a great attorney is more in one's ability to mediate between differing sides and bringing them to agreement/compromise. Many people mistakenly think that being an attorney is about the ability to argue. Actually, a successful attorney is defined by his/her commitment to the PEACEFUL resolution of disputes. Lawyers are actually: mediators, advocates, negotiators, advisors, evaluators, and peaceful intermediaries between clients.),
**myth: as a lawyer I can correct injustices (actually legal decisions are more about reaching compromises than about right vs. wrong),
**myth: guaranteed financial success (actually when salaries are compared, you also need to account for cost-of living expenses [most large law firms are in large cities - the bigger the city, the more cost-of-living expenses will be], payment of debts accrued while attending law school, and time needed to build a client base. Many large law firms require lawyers to work 60-80 hours per week. There are a FEW attorneys that earn a lot of money - but MOST attorneys just about make a living. Most attorneys do not make as much money as most people think. Also, remember: there are more attorneys than there are available jobs.).
And then, to top it off, attorneys have to keep their client's information confidential. (You cannot use "juicy" tidbits that you have become aware of as fodder for the gossip circles.)

Law is a more demanding profession than most people realize. It is not like what you see on TV.

Cost of law school to be lawyer, approx $150,000+. Be prepared to take on a LOT of debt, if becoming an attorney is your "true", ultimate goal!!

There are no jobs in this vocational field. I have watched as my family, coworkers, friends, acqaintances, etc. have been laid off left and right in this vocational field.

Even if you do finish law school, you won't be able to find a job when you are done. Since this vocational field is shrinking (at an alarming rate), many new attorneys/lawyers are, themselves, having to work "down" as Paralegals, Legal Assistants, Legal Secretaries, Bailiffs, Court Reporters, etc, etc, to simply try to keep some of their bills paid <<this would be your competition. And the competition is fierce in TODAY's job market!!

Now... the law schools know this, but they won't tell you the truth >that the job market/economy is just SATURATED with way too many Legal Professionals. Instead the schools will feed you a fairytale and will LIE to you. The root of the problem is we already have too many law schools. We are STILL in a Recession, and the schools are fighting for their own survival - they will tell students anything to get to the students' money. (Which is why they won't tell you the truth about the job market for the field of Law.) And these schools continue to recruit and churn out even more graduates.............Remember>>> law schools are BUSINESSES - their TOP concern is making money for themselves.

>>>>>THE #1 MOST IMPORTANT THING (and I can't stress this enough>>>): You ESPECIALLY have to beware of the BOGUS, INFLATED law school salary/job stats given out by >law schools< (AND by the U.S. Bureau of Labor)!!***<<<<<

If you don't believe us, then:
**Check out these websites:
http://www.wikihow.com/Become-a-Lawyer-in-the-United-States
http://informeddecisionmaking.blogspot.com
http://calicocat.com/2004/08/law-school-big-lie.html
http://abajournal.com/news/triplt_bad_news_for_law_students_three_firms_aX_summer_associate_programs/
http://abajournal.com/news/as_rio_tinto_saves_millions_other_corps_will_outsource_too_counsel_says/
http://blog.penelopetrunk.com/2009/02/03/dont-try-to-dodge-the-recession-with-grad-school/
http://lawschoolscam.blogspot.com
http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/09/02/another-view-lock-the-law-school-doors/?ref=business
http://media.www.dailyorange.com/media/storage/paper522/news/2009/09/15/News/Law-Students.Face.Tough.Job.Market-3771810.shtml
http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/
(A link to a website does not constitute endorsement.)
**do a SEARCH here on Yahoo Answers to see what other posters are saying about the current status of the field of Law. Call some local law firms - ask to speak to the Manager of Human Resources - ask them if they are hiring; ask them what they think about future job availability in the field of Law..................
**Do "informational interviews" with several attorneys from at least two or three different firms. (You can find how to do "informational interviews" from your local Public Library - ask the Librarian.) Interviewing attorneys is a time-efficient and extremely beneficial way of discovering if law is the right vocational field for you. Talk to a few Human Resource Managers who work at employers in the field of Law. Ask them what their opinion is on future job availability for the field of Law. Ask them if they have any current open positions. Ask them how many resumes they receive when they advertise ONE open position. (It is ususally approximately 300 resumes are received for each open position advertised.) If you personally know a practicing lawyer, set up a time with them to do an "informational interview" to ask them about their career. Talk to many attorneys. Better yet, spend an entire day with one of them.
**Talk to recent law graduates. Ask them what success they are having finding employment opportunities. <<<<<

If you want a JOB when you are done with your studies, consider and look into the fields of: >>>Healthcare<<<, Information Technology, Law ENFORCEMENT, environmentalism, emergency planning, accounting, education, entertainment, utilities, home-car-commercial-industrial repairs, vice industries, clergy, and/or debt collection. I spoke to a career counselor from Jobs and Family Services, and HE told me that these areas are where the jobs are, and future job opportunities/availability....and scholarships.

There are MANY issues of working in the vocational field of Law. My answer is an attempt to give you a realistic way of looking at this career, and I have told you things that most will not tell you about the profession - at first. Be careful, do your research, and have your eyes open wide.

Good luck.

(This is based on my current knowledge, information, belief, and life experiences.)

[fionnbharr]

If you posess a degree - or any other qualification - then you'll already be in advace of of the masses when it comes to hunting for jobs. My friend has a degree and he wasn't certain what direction to go with it, but he stumbled upon some great tips on the website in the resource box below which helped him to settle that he wanted to be a lab assistant. There is plenty of help on the website regarding other jobs.