What Do You Think About This? Illegal Immigration Question And Debate.

[Baddon]

IF YOU CROSS THE NORTH KOREAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET 12 YEARS HARD LABOR......IF YOU GO INTO CHINA ILLEGALLY, YOU'RE CONSIDERED A SPY AND GET HARD PRISON TIME.....IF YOU GO INTO GERMANY ILLEGALLY, YOU GET A HEFTY FINE, WORK IT OFF OR PAY IT OFF,THEN DEPORTED........IF YOU GO INTO ENGLAND ILLEGALLY, YOU ARE IMMEDIATELY JAILED AND DEPORTED.........IF YOU CROSS THE IRANIAN BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU ARE DETAINED INDEFINITELY.....BUT, IF YOU CROSS THE U.S. .. BORDER ILLEGALLY YOU GET: 1. A DRIVERS LICENSE 2. A SOCIAL SECURITY CARD 3. WELFARE 4. FOOD STAMPS AND 5. FREE HEALTH CARE?Does anyone see anything wrong with this?Okay, yes this country was based on immigration -- but the legal kind.What are your thoughts?Please no fighting or assaulting others as this is a debate.

[Marcello]

Oh, don't forget the big payoff.... Obama is actually planning to give amnesty, by executive order, to Mexican illegals on the presumption that they will be grateful and vote for him in 2012. BTW, executive order is unconstitutional. Where is SCOTUS? On the golf course? Jenn*WeWinIn2010* 48 months ago Please sign in to give a compliment. Please verify your account to give a compliment. Please sign in to send a message. Please verify your account to send a message.

[Courtney]

We live in a different dispensation today than we did 20 years ago. Twenty years ago, when the US granted amnesty to our neighbors, the world was not racked by terror. The druglords were not preying on US  citizens and the economics of government giveaway programs were not nearly as "generous" as they are today.   Today, the world is different. The US is a target because of our liberal policies and generous nature. If all it was is our liberal and lax enforcement of the rules, it would be simple and we could easily solve the problem. We could shut down the borders, prosecute all the illegals and move on. But that is not humane today nor does it represent reality.   Many of our Hispanic neighbors are doing jobs our citizens won't do. They are farm hands, restaurant workers and day laborers. There are so many jobs in the minimum wage range that US born workers refuse to take. The result, a crying demand for the 20mil plus workers from Mexico who are willing to risk everything to come and work these positions.   As a side note, if we had the millions of aborted children alive today as adults, we would have more workers in our pool. All to say, the US has put itself in this position. Couple this with the families of the illegal workers(oh excuse me, undocumented workers), we are now in our schools and have generations of families rootted in their communities. Do we just callously tell them to go home? Where is home?   Here is my plan. Shut down the borders. No more illegals under any circumstances. Give every employer a "get out jail free" card, but tell them we are going to enforce the laws starting tomorrow. This allows them to document their current illegal workers. They can have a reasonable number of passes, to be determined by immigration. This is like a wholesale amnesty program. The employers can have as many passes as they can demonstrate they need. Then each of the workers who currently have jobs, takes their card home to Mexico and turns around and comes back legally. They declare the number of dependents they have and they get a tax payer ID number. They are tested to see if they can drive and get a drivers license.   They must learn English, in a ESL program over the next two years. They get their old job back. Immigration can then check the employers to see if they are adhering to the law. If they are not, them they are in deep trouble, heavy fines and maybe even criminal proceedings for violating the immigration rules.   After that date, all new immigrants must enter legally. A quota would be established and the country can determine who is in and who is out based on the rules that have been in place for decades.   The old workers now have 5 years to become a citizen or go home. They are subject to fines and or jail for any serious violations of the law. One strike they are deported. Zero tolerance. They pay taxes and are given benefits by the employers who wanted them. The employers have one year to conform.   What has been accomplished? All old immigrants and new immigrants are on the same playing field. They each have the same length of time to become citizens. They all learn to speak English. They all pay taxes. They all learn the rules and are allowed to drive. They all have health benefits. The kids stay in school and we close the borders to all new immigrants except for those who come in legally.   It reestablishes the rule of law and humanely treats those who have come here during our lax years and built lives here. It is not their fault we had rules we did not inforce. Now we enforce them and give them a chance to conform. Those who do, can become US citizens. Those who don't will be deported - some sooner than others.   In the end, we bring stability to immigration and we welcome our new neighbors and friends. We bring to an end the acrimony and enforce the law of the land.

[Stillmann]

Obama is actually planning to give amnesty, by executive order, to Mexican illegals on the presumption that they will be grateful and vote for him in 2012. BTW, executive order is unconstitutional. Where is SCOTUS? On the golf course?

[Marnin]

Do a little research  I suggest you do a little research before repeating what you get in a anonymous e-mail.   Most of the ALL CAPS   TALKING POINTS are incorrect or irrelevant.   The points about England and Germany are irrelevant, as they have allowed in foreign workers for many decades.  There are like a million Turkish workers in Germany.  The only way they are different from our illegal immigrants is a little piece of yellow paper.   The points about North Korea, China, and Iran are totally irrelevant-- they're xenophobic countries with enemies across every border.   And the "info" about the US is incorrect-- illegal immigrants are not given any of those things. They're here to make minimum wage, and I suspect their unemployment rate is lower than the average. Just today I've seen them on a roofing job at -13 below on a Sunday.  Not exactly welfare queens.   I enjoy a debate, but how's about at least having a passing resemblance to reality?     Ancient_Hacker 48 months ago Please sign in to give a compliment. Please verify your account to give a compliment. Please sign in to send a message. Please verify your account to send a message.

[jorel]

A time to reassess We live in a different dispensation today than we did 20 years ago. Twenty years ago, when the US granted amnesty to our neighbors, the world was not racked by terror. The druglords were not preying on US  citizens and the economics of government giveaway programs were not nearly as "generous" as they are today.   Today, the world is different. The US is a target because of our liberal policies and generous nature. If all it was is our liberal and lax enforcement of the rules, it would be simple and we could easily solve the problem. We could shut down the borders, prosecute all the illegals and move on. But that is not humane today nor does it represent reality.   Many of our Hispanic neighbors are doing jobs our citizens won't do. They are farm hands, restaurant workers and day laborers. There are so many jobs in the minimum wage range that US born workers refuse to take. The result, a crying demand for the 20mil plus workers from Mexico who are willing to risk everything to come and work these positions.   As a side note, if we had the millions of aborted children alive today as adults, we would have more workers in our pool. All to say, the US has put itself in this position. Couple this with the families of the illegal workers(oh excuse me, undocumented workers), we are now in our schools and have generations of families rootted in their communities. Do we just callously tell them to go home? Where is home?   Here is my plan. Shut down the borders. No more illegals under any circumstances. Give every employer a "get out jail free" card, but tell them we are going to enforce the laws starting tomorrow. This allows them to document their current illegal workers. They can have a reasonable number of passes, to be determined by immigration. This is like a wholesale amnesty program. The employers can have as many passes as they can demonstrate they need. Then each of the workers who currently have jobs, takes their card home to Mexico and turns around and comes back legally. They declare the number of dependents they have and they get a tax payer ID number. They are tested to see if they can drive and get a drivers license.   They must learn English, in a ESL program over the next two years. They get their old job back. Immigration can then check the employers to see if they are adhering to the law. If they are not, them they are in deep trouble, heavy fines and maybe even criminal proceedings for violating the immigration rules.   After that date, all new immigrants must enter legally. A quota would be established and the country can determine who is in and who is out based on the rules that have been in place for decades.   The old workers now have 5 years to become a citizen or go home. They are subject to fines and or jail for any serious violations of the law. One strike they are deported. Zero tolerance. They pay taxes and are given benefits by the employers who wanted them. The employers have one year to conform.   What has been accomplished? All old immigrants and new immigrants are on the same playing field. They each have the same length of time to become citizens. They all learn to speak English. They all pay taxes. They all learn the rules and are allowed to drive. They all have health benefits. The kids stay in school and we close the borders to all new immigrants except for those who come in legally.   It reestablishes the rule of law and humanely treats those who have come here during our lax years and built lives here. It is not their fault we had rules we did not inforce. Now we enforce them and give them a chance to conform. Those who do, can become US citizens. Those who don't will be deported - some sooner than others.   In the end, we bring stability to immigration and we welcome our new neighbors and friends. We bring to an end the acrimony and enforce the law of the land. guybee 48 months ago Please sign in to give a compliment. Please verify your account to give a compliment. Please sign in to send a message. Please verify your account to send a message.

[wapi28]

slow down here illegal immigration has diminished. The Latino workers are generally good, fast and hardworking and willing to take less pay if necessary. Anyone who will walk over rugged terrain for hours and sometimes days is desperate to obtain work for their family's survival back home.    The numbers vary from 5 to 12 million illegals here at a one time. This really cannot be policed except in gestapo fashion and we as a people would vote against it.    Securing the border is really the only sure way to cut back on illegals but with no place to house them sending them back is the only means we have. Of course a fairly high percentage will try it again and succeed in crossing.    There is no simple solution since we are speaking geographically of miles and miles of entry routes. It is a Christian ideal to help the least among us and letting people starve or die is not in our heart as a Nation. Churches and gov't. are sometimes the only safety net that illegals have.    I'm not being one sided here, just try to state a factual(with some opinion) view of the problem. If the Mexican economy would boom and prosper there would be a huge exodus back into Mexico(not likely).    It really can't be done effectively at this point it would appear. Things are always changing but sometimes very slowly.

[Byrn]

Well, ya see , we're not all dictatorial and oppressive like those other countries.(wink wink.) There is a concerted effort(the evidence is too copious to deny anymore) to unify these three nations into one super-nation that can take on the EU economically. It won't work, of course, as two of the three future members are presently so in debt they'll be decades paying it off. But that's the plan, which is why we allow Mexicans in here right now. Oh, and your best evidence/comparison wouldn't have been North Korea or China nor even Germany but Mexico itself. They get someone from Guatemala in  their country(trying to make it to the U.S.) and they are BRUTAL with the poor sap. Mexico is the poster child for immigration hypocrisy. I suppose when NAFTA becomes the Super-State and the Amero replaces the dollar, I'll be able to mosey on down to Mexico any time I want? As if that would be any fun. danielpauldavis 48 months ago Please sign in to give a compliment. Please verify your account to give a compliment. Please sign in to send a message. Please verify your account to send a message.

[Finbar]

(wink wink.) There is a concerted effort(the evidence is too copious to deny anymore) to unify these three nations into one super-nation that can take on the EU economically. It won't work, of course, as two of the three future members are presently so in debt they'll be decades paying it off. But that's the plan, which is why we allow Mexicans in here right now. Oh, and your best evidence/comparison wouldn't have been North Korea or China nor even Germany but Mexico itself. They get someone from Guatemala in  their country(trying to make it to the U.S.) and they are BRUTAL with the poor sap. Mexico is the poster child for immigration hypocrisy. I suppose when NAFTA becomes the Super-State and the Amero replaces the dollar, I'll be able to mosey on down to Mexico any time I want? As if that would be any fun.

[Chagia]

 I suggest you do a little research before repeating what you get in a anonymous e-mail.   Most of the ALL CAPS   TALKING POINTS are incorrect or irrelevant.   The points about England and Germany are irrelevant, as they have allowed in foreign workers for many decades.  There are like a million Turkish workers in Germany.  The only way they are different from our illegal immigrants is a little piece of yellow paper.   The points about North Korea, China, and Iran are totally irrelevant-- they're xenophobic countries with enemies across every border.   And the "info" about the US is incorrect-- illegal immigrants are not given any of those things. They're here to make minimum wage, and I suspect their unemployment rate is lower than the average. Just today I've seen them on a roofing job at -13 below on a Sunday.  Not exactly welfare queens.   I enjoy a debate, but how's about at least having a passing resemblance to reality?