Is my Landlord right?

[albanwr26]

I moved into an apartment about a year ago. When I moved in the Landlord said the previous tenant was leaving some items and asked me if I wanted them. I responded I wasn’t sure but would decide what do with them when I moved in, to which he did not respond. On moving day some of the items he said would be there were and some were not. One thing there he did not mention was a wardrobe. I was not informed the wardrobe would be here and so had purchased one. The one I bought was much bigger so I had my friends move the wardrobe outside. In order to do this they took off the doors. Later that night I answered my door and my landlord’s wife (who I had not met before) began yelling at me for moving the wardrobe. I apologized and said I was unaware I could not move it, she left to get her husband to come back and talk to me. I told my landlord upon his return that I was sorry and if it was damaged I would leave my new wardrobe upon moving out. He informed me that although I had not been told anything about the wardrobe, anything in the apartment is their property and I must ask before moving it (admittedly makes sense). He moved the wardrobe back inside and into a hallway downstairs. The next day I took a look at it. The chipboard on the back had come loose (this happens pretty easily on furniture that has them and as far as I am aware is an easy fix). Other than that the wardrobe was in the same condition as before it had been moved other than the doors being removed, but all the pieces were there. The next day it was gone and he told me they had moved it into a different apartment. I took that to mean it was not damaged as they were still using it and I would be able to keep my wardrobe. Now that I am moving out he is insistent that I leave my current wardrobe, pay for the damages to the old one, or purchase him a new one. Do I have to do any of these? There are no pictures of the wardrobe before or after moving it or any documentation of damage done (or not done) to it. There is also no documentation of me telling my landlord I would leave my current wardrobe if the other one was damaged. All of this is taking place in Ontario

[delron]

At least in American law, you've got a bunch of different grey areas. Unless the lease or related document explicitly describes the apartment and EACH ITEM IN the apartment, it becomes a he-says-he-says problem. That is, he claims it was there and part of the lease, and you claim it was there but not part of the lease and there isn't any paperwork indicating who is correct.

But generally, he can't ask you to supply new hardware. He could take the cost of the old wardrobe out of your security deposit and if its value exceeds the security deposit (or the deposit is used up with something else) sue you for the rest.

At any rate, from your point of view, the wardrobe was in the apartment and he moved it. It may have had some damage at that point, but he never submitted an invoice to fix that damage nor did he tell you what that damage was (you noticed it, not him).

If he claims that it was part of the apartment, then by removing and not replacing it, he has not provided the furnishings as originally described. That is, at the time you signed the lease, you had (presumably) seen the apartment and knew what you were leasing. If he removes it with no written instructions from you to do so, then he has (presumably) decreased the value of the apartment and arguably owes you a refund on the rent.

He needs to make up his mind: If the old wardrobe was supposed to be there and he removed it, then he owes you some of the rent back - less whatever damage you did to it.

If the wardrobe was not supposed to be there, then he can't come after you to replace it now can he?

I doubt he can legally do this, but is it really worth it to fight? Are you going to try to use him as a reference to rent elsewhere?

If you already have a lease with somebody else, I'd tell him he's out of luck unless he can provide paperwork showing that the item was supposed to be there and that you were responsible for having it removed. Since he removed it, that shouldn't be possible.

If you don't have a lease with somebody else, you get to decide if being right and keeping your wardrobe is worth pissing him off.

Oh yeah - moral of the story: "Get it in writing."

[alleyne]

He has his property so he cannot make you leave yours. Worst case for you is that he somehow convinces a judge that you caused damages to it. In this case you would owe to repair it or pay the depreciated value of it. Given you only saw this wardrobe for a day or so and he has had it for a year I think it would be very difficult for him to prove the damage is from you.

[gervaso81]

Your landlord is so full of it that it is almost laughable. When you rented this place you rented it as an "unfurnished" unit. Unfurnished means it does not come with wardrobe or other furnishings. In Ontario the place normally comes with appliances.

It is unusual for tenants to leave fixtures behind and the only reason the landlord asked if you "wanted them" is because he was too lazy to remove them and take care of them. This would have required finding storage or making arrangements at his expense to get rid of them. He took the easy way out and tried to make it look like he was doing you a favour.

"He informed me that although I had not been told anything about the wardrobe, anything in the apartment is their property and I must ask before moving it (admittedly makes sense)."

By rights you could have insisted that he remove HIS property, the wardrobe, out of YOUR place as soon as possible rather than use your apartment as a storage facility which is what he was attempting to do.

You DO NOT have to leave your own wardrobe to compensate him nor do you have to pay him for any damage to the old one. He paid nothing for it so there is nothing to compensate him for. If he were to take you to court over this he would be laughed out of court!

Edit:

Your details and your added details make it difficult to give you an accurate and helpful answer because they're inconsistent. In your additional details you said: "....He didn't tell me any of this during the showing " in reference to the wardrobe. During what "showing"? A showing is when prospective tenants ask to see an apartment before they decide to take it. If there was a showing then you would have seen the place and everything in it including the wardrobe! You would have had the opportunity to ask about the wardrobe at that time. Why didn't you? Earlier you said you didn't know it came with a wardrobe because the landlord did not mention it. Either you saw it or you didn't!

Your landlord is messing with you. Apartments don't come with wardrobes unless the previous tenant didn't bother to take it. If the wardrobe came with the apartment then it would have been included and listed on the lease- for one reason: To make sure you didn't wander off with it when you moved out. If it's not on the lease agreement he has no proof that it was ever in the apartment and you're home free as far as I'm concerned. You just have to say, "What wardrobe?"

This guy is trying to intimidate you into getting you to leave your new wardrobe behind. If you're unwilling to do that then he wants to fleece you out of some money.

If the wardrobe came with the apartment there would be no reason for him to move it out and yet he did. If it has been moved to another apartment then let that tenant deal with any damage because as far as you're concerned you are not the one responsible.

[chavivi]

Your landlord is so full of it that it is almost laughable. When you rented this place you rented it as an "unfurnished" unit. Unfurnished means it does not come with wardrobe or other furnishings. In Ontario the place normally comes with appliances.

It is unusual for tenants to leave fixtures behind and the only reason the landlord asked if you "wanted them" is because he was too lazy to remove them and take care of them. This would have required finding storage or making arrangements at his expense to get rid of them. He took the easy way out and tried to make it look like he was doing you a favour.

"He informed me that although I had not been told anything about the wardrobe, anything in the apartment is their property and I must ask before moving it (admittedly makes sense)."

By rights you could have insisted that he remove HIS property, the wardrobe, out of YOUR place as soon as possible rather than use your apartment as a storage facility which is what he was attempting to do.

You DO NOT have to leave your own wardrobe to compensate him nor do you have to pay him for any damage to the old one. He paid nothing for it so there is nothing to compensate him for. If he were to take you to court over this he would be laughed out of court!

Edit:

Your details and your added details make it difficult to give you an accurate and helpful answer because they're inconsistent. In your additional details you said: "....He didn't tell me any of this during the showing " in reference to the wardrobe. During what "showing"? A showing is when prospective tenants ask to see an apartment before they decide to take it. If there was a showing then you would have seen the place and everything in it including the wardrobe! You would have had the opportunity to ask about the wardrobe at that time. Why didn't you? Earlier you said you didn't know it came with a wardrobe because the landlord did not mention it. Either you saw it or you didn't!

Your landlord is messing with you. Apartments don't come with wardrobes unless the previous tenant didn't bother to take it. If the wardrobe came with the apartment then it would have been included and listed on the lease- for one reason: To make sure you didn't wander off with it when you moved out. If it's not on the lease agreement he has no proof that it was ever in the apartment and you're home free as far as I'm concerned. You just have to say, "What wardrobe?"

This guy is trying to intimidate you into getting you to leave your new wardrobe behind. If you're unwilling to do that then he wants to fleece you out of some money.

If the wardrobe came with the apartment there would be no reason for him to move it out and yet he did. If it has been moved to another apartment then let that tenant deal with any damage because as far as you're concerned you are not the one responsible.

A pretty good answer, as usual, by Meerkat. I would add that a good landlord should have a lease that specifies what appliances and other furniture are included. If your "showing" occurred while the previous tenant occupied the unit, then you would have no way of knowing what is to be left behind. You should be inspecting the apartment with your landlord on or just before the date you move in and any items left in the apartment should be dealt with, either by an amendment to the lease to specifically state that they are included in the rent or by the landlord agreeing to remove them.

The landlord cannot withhold money from your rent deposit to cover those repairs. He can try to take you to the LTB or Small Claims Court but there is little chance he would succeed if you attend to present your side of the story.

The only drawback to leaving under these terms is that you will likely not have a good reference from your landlord, but as long as you can deal with this, you should not worry.