The Nature Of Christ (everyone Read This...please)

[Jarrett]

:  You are welcome to your own opinion, but not to your own set of facts.  I am dealing with historical and theological facts while you are trying to defend cultic myths and confused double talk.  

Traditional Adventism is not credible on much of anything.  It is wrong about the Nature of Christ and Original Sin as well as about the Gospel and the Judgment and the Sabbath and hermeneutics, and the Lord's Supper, and Tithe and church organization, and prophecy, and eschatology, and church history, and on and on.

I know of no other way to put it.  The SDA's are drowning in a sea of false doctrines and there is no use to pretend otherwise.  Unless the SDA church decides to tell the truth about its past and repent for its many errors and false doctrines, it is doomed.

 How you can emphasize following the Apostles example over following Jesus' example is beyond me.

[Aubrey]

:  Ellen White is a great resource to understand Adventist theology and history.  But she does not have doctrinal authority and she never clamed otherwise.  Those like Dr. Ford or Tom Norris that understand her writings, have no problem using these writings within the proper theological and historical context.  

Ellen White is not the problem.  Rather, it is those, like the White Estate, and others, that have manipulated her words and covered up her true positions.  

 As for Dr. Ford - so he is an accomplished theologian, a terrific speaker - the way you present this comes across as how dare a puny, no theological training guy like myself question Dr. Ford because he has all these degrees.

[Montie]

:  You are very wrong.  Jesus was pre-existent.  He was God.  He came from heaven and was born of a virgin.  He had more of the Holy Sprit than any sinful man or woman can have because he was sinless and we are not.

All of this is very different from us.  Which is why when we were born there were no Angels singing.  But when Jesus was born, the heavens erupted in song and praise for the sinless, second Adam.

Luke 2:12 “This will be a sign for you: you will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.” Luke 2:13 And suddenly there appeared with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying, Luke 2:14 “Glory to God in the highest,   And on earth peace among men with whom He is pleased.”

Jesus was born innocent and holy, because as he had the pre-fallen nature of Adam.  We are not born like this, nor do we ever become like this at any time prior to the Second Coming.  This should not be hard to understand for SDA's because this is what William Miller taught.  The Advent Movement refuted the Holiness Movement of its day, and Miller was correct to do so.

All SDA's need to stop pretending that there is no difference between Christ and us.  There is great difference on many levels.

 So - Jesus at His birth and us when we become a Christian is the same. Jesus had no advantages that we can't have when we become a Christian.

[Chayton]

Do you purposely wait to answer these types of questions, hoping they get lost behind other questions people have asked on the board to others?

Tom Norris

[Donovon]

;  MOD is a horrible book.  Why?  Because it was supposed to tell the real story about 1888 that had been purposefully hidden by AG Daniels.  Not only did it fail to tell the truth, Froom invented things that were not true even as he covered up what really took place.  His claim that Christology was the heart of the 1888 debate is absurd and refuted by the facts.  The church must repent for MOD and set the record straight.

 Dr. Ford was correctly 'thrown out' of the SDA church because he was teaching heresy. Dr. Ford did much damage to the SDA church. No doubt he had a tremendous impact, but it was for the worse.

[Faraji]

:  They seem clear enough to me.  I think you need to go back and read them again and stop trying to hear what you want to hear.

"It is a mystery that is left unexplained to mortals that Christ could be tempted in all points like as we are, and yet be without sin. The incarnation of Christ has ever been, and will ever remain, a mystery. That which is revealed, is for us and for our children, BUT LET EVERY HUMAN BEING BE WARNED FROM THE GROUND OF MAKING CHRIST ALTOGETHER HUMAN, SUCH AS ONE AS OURSELVES; FOR IT CANNOT BE."

SDA Bible Commentary, vol 5 pp. 1128, 1129.

This statement is hardly an endorsement to go around and proclaim that Jesus is just like us.  And the one below clearly defines Christ in the PRE-FALL condition of Adam.  So what is the problem?  

The Godhead was not made human, and the human was not deified by the blending together of the two natures. Christ did not possess the same sinful, corrupt, fallen disloyalty we possess, for then He could not be a perfect offering.--Manuscript 94, 1893. {3SM 131.1}

I suggest that you stop closing your mind to the facts you don't like and take in the overwhelming evidence that supports the Protestant, pre-fall position about the NOC.  All SDA's should stop assuming what they have been taught is correct and start searching for the facts.http://www.sdanet.org/atissue/books/wwhc/

 You are talking out of both sides of your mouth(as well as Dr. Ford) when it comes to Ellen White. You will freely use her writings to support some distorted point BUT condemn her writings to at least some degree as being changed or distorted by the White Estate(as you just have) when someone else uses her writings to clearly refute what you have said. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

[Job]

; SDA's are very confused about the scriptures as well as church history.  They do not understand the Bible or the Gospel Story correctly, nor do they produce any credible works about church history or theology.  Rather, they are experts at double-talk, denial, and evasion, even as they spin the Bible this way and that to make their cultic points.  Their doctrines are supported by censorship, not the Protestant Hermeneutic.

Those that support Traditional Adventism need to understand that it is bankrupt.  Without serious Repentance and Reform the SDA's are doomed.   The Adventists need to humble themselves and admit their many errors and false doctrines.  They also need to learn how to read the Bible correctly and to stop embracing myths and fables.  You have admitted that you buy into what you call the Protestant doctrine of Original Sin. This is a CATHOLIC doctrine.